Ostrowski Motion Hrg 8-27-13 10MC64

7/29/2019 Ostrowski Motion Hrg 8-27-13 10MC64

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I N THE UNI TED STATES DI STRI CT COURT

FOR THE MI DDLE DI STRI CT OF PENNSYLVANI A

I N RE: :ANDREWJ . OSTROWSKI : Case #1: 10- MC- 0064:

BEFORE: HONORABLE MATTHEW W. BRANN

PLACE: Wi l l i amspor t , Pennsyl vani a

PROCEEDI NGS: Mot i on Hear i ng

DATE: Tuesday, August 27, 2013

VOLUME: One

APPEARANCES:

ANDREW J . OSTROWSKI , ESQUI REDON A. BAI LEY, ESQUI RE4311 Nort h 6t h St r eetHarr i sbur g, PA 17110

HUBERT XAVI ER GI LROY, ESQUI RECHRI S VANLANDI NGHAM, ESQUI REMart son Law Of f i ces

10 East Hi gh St r eetCar l i sl e, PA 17013

GAREN O. MEGUERI AN, ESQUI RE21 I ndust r i al Boul evar dSui t e 201Paol i , PA 19301

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I NDEX TO WI TNESSES

FOR PLAI NTI FF: DI RECT CROSS REDI RECT RECROSS COURT

Stephen Schwart z, M. D. 18 30 34 37

St ef an Phi l i p Kr uszewski 46 82 83

Andr ew J . Ost r owski 104 134 144, 162 153

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I NDEX TO EXHI BI TS

PLAI NTI FF: I DENTI FI ED ADMI TTED

Exhi bi t No. 1 19 45



Exhi bi t No. 4 69

Exhi bi t No. 5 69

Exhi bi t No. 6 69

Exhi bi t No. 7 69

Exhi bi t No. 8 69

Exhi bi t No. 9 88

Exhi bi t No. 10 148

Exhi bi t No. 11 162 162

Exhi bi t No. 12 163

DEFENDANT: I DENTI FI ED ADMI TTED

Exhi bi t No. 1 136 158

Exhi bi t No. 2 138 158

Exhi bi t No. 3 138 158

Exhi bi t No. 4 140 158

Exhi bi t No. 5 141 158

Exhi bi t No. 6 142 158

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( 10: 04 a. m. , convene. )

THE COURT: Good morni ng. We are here t hi s morni ng i n

t he i nt er est of Andr ew J . Ost r owski , docket ed bef or e t hi s Cour t

t o number 1: 10- MC- 64. Mr . Ost r owski , you' r e her e.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Yes, Your Honor.

THE COURT: And you are r epr esent ed t hi s morni ng, I

under st and, by Don Bai l ey, Esqui r e. I s thi s Mr . Bai l ey?

MR. OSTROWSKI: J ust f or a ver y l i mi t ed pur pose. He' s

goi ng to make one pr el i mi nar y mot i on and I ' m goi ng to handl e

al l of t he evi dent i ar y aspect s of t hi s pr oceedi ng.

THE COURT: Al l r i ght . And t hi s i s Mr . Gi l r oy.

MR. GILROY: Good morni ng, Your Honor. Hubert Gi l r oy.

I have wi t h me Chr i s Vanl andi ngham, an associ ate i n my of f i ce.

THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Good mor ni ng. Ar e we r eady t o

proceed?


THE COURT: Mr . Ost r owski , i f you woul d l i ke t o make a

br i ef openi ng st at ement , i f you t hi nk t hat ' s hel pf ul t o or i ent

t he Cour t , you may do so.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Yeah. Wel l , I ' l l t ake a coupl e

mi nut es t o do t hat . Thank you f or t he oppor t uni t y, Your Honor .

THE COURT: You' r e wel come.

MR. OSTROWSKI: We are her e on what was l abel ed a

mot i on t o r eopen/ r ei nst at e. The pr i mar y pr emi se of t he mot i on

was t hat at t he t i me t hat I was or i gi nal l y di sci pl i ned i n t he

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year 2010, my suspensi on order f r omt he Pennsyl vani a Supreme

Cour t was Febr uary 9t h, 2010, was f or a year and a day. And

t hen t he Mi ddl e Di st r i ct , t hr ough J udge Kane, under t he

r eci pr ocal di sci pl i ne pr ovi si ons, adopt ed t he same di sci pl i ne

and made i t ef f ect i ve i mmedi at el y; I t hi nk t hat was on or about

March 23rd, 2010.

At t he t i me I had gone thr ough t he Pennsyl vani a

pr ocedur es - - t he Pennsyl vani a di sci pl i nar y pr ocess, I di d not

put on any medi cal evi dence i n my case, because I have a

hi st or y t hat , i n a wor d, i s not hi ng shor t of humi l i at i ng. I

had been t hr ough a good f i ve or si x year per i od of some j ust

awf ul per sonal ci r cumst ances and humi l i at i ng cour se of conduct

and exper i ences.

At t he t i me - - you know, i t was dur i ng t hat per i od of

t i me where I was goi ng t hr ough what , you know, was an anxi ety

peri od and, you know, a whol e bunch of , I guess, emot i onal t ype

of sympt oms and t hi ngs of t hat nat ur e. I r eal l y di dn' t have a

a physi ci an. I was ki nd of l ef t abandoned i n many ways by a

physi ci an by t he name of Dr . St ef an Kr uszewski who was assi gned

t o me or I met hi m t hr ough t he Lawyer s Concerned f or Lawyer s

t hr ough t he Pennsyl vani a Bar Associ at i on. I have some hi st or y

of subst ance abuse i ssues t hat ar e f ul l y deal t wi t h and

r esol ved at t hi s poi nt .

But t he poi nt t hat I ' m get t i ng t o i s dur i ng t he

di sci pl i nar y pr ocess i n Pennsyl vani a, I di d not have what

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was - - what i s cal l ed Br aun ethi cs; t he case of Commonweal t h

ver sus Br aun i s t he case t hat adopt ed the st andar ds t hat gover n

mi t i gat i ng medi cal / psychi at r i c evi dence i n di sci pl i nar y

pr oceedi ngs. And f r ankl y, you know, t he per i od of t i me f r om

about 2005 thr ough 2007 or 8, I j ust di d not have anybody who

coul d poi nt t o tel l me what t he heck i s goi ng on wi t h me, what

i s wr ong wi t h me.

So when i t came t o t he di sci pl i nar y pr oceedi ngs, I

j ust acknowl edged t hat t her e were ci r cumst ances t hat I had l ost

cont r ol of . And I mean, basi cal l y t he way I have expl ai ned i t

f or t he year s si nce t hat t i me i s I - - you know, and I have

apol ogi zed t o peopl e. I have apol ogi zed t o ever y j udge of t he

Mi ddl e Di st r i ct Cour t . I have apol ogi zed t o ot her j udges. I

have speci f i cal l y apol ogi zed t o cl i ent s on t he basi s t hat I

al l owed my per sonal ci r cumst ances t o i nt er f er e wi t h my

pr act i ce. And i t caused gr eat humi l i at i on and embar r assment t o

me, and I t hi nk you know caused some i nconveni ence and

aggr avat i on and di scomf or t t o j udges and cl i ent s. And t hat ' s

pr et t y much how I have handl ed t hat si t uat i on. And t hat ' s

pr et t y much how I def ended my di sci pl i nary pr oceedi ngs.

Si nce t hat t i me, and actual l y i t was t hi s year ,

J anuar y of t hi s year , I , you know, had cont i nued t o j ust - -

dur i ng my di sci pl i ne I j ust cont i nued t o keep mysel f occupi ed

and do thi ngs and, you know, j ust ki nd of cont i nued t o moni t or

mysel f and do what I needed t o do. And i n J anuary of t hi s year

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I got di agnosed i t wi t h post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der . I had a

t r aumat i c bur n over 16 per cent of my body. I have got scar r i ng

on my back and my ar ms t o show i t . Thi s was i n t he year 1973.

When I was hospi t al i zed i n 1973 at a Cat hol i c hospi t al , Sai nt

J oe' s Hospi t al i n Lancast er , you know, pai n management and pai n

t r eat ment wer en' t pr i or i t y medi cal i t ems t hat t hey ar e now.

And I was not gi ven Mor phi ne. I was gi ven r eal mi l d ki nd of

pai n medi cat i ons.

And as a r esul t , my syst em has been, you know, under a

sever e st r ess and st r ai n f or 40 year s. And I have deal t wi t h

t hi s i ssue f or 40 year s. I have a monkey of f my back t hat I

am - - can do not hi ng but t hank t he Lor d i n heaven t hat I have

of f my back. But al so, now I have a medi cal di agnosi s t o

operate under .

My cont ent i on f or t hi s hear i ng i s t hat had I been

pr oper l y t r eat ed and di agnosed i n t he past , whi ch my doct or ,

who i s goi ng t o be our f i r st wi t ness, wi l l t est i f y i s j ust

obvi ous that t hi s i s a PTSD i ssue. Had I been pr oper l y

di agnosed and t r eat ed, A, I never - - wi t h t hese di sci pl i nar y

i ssues, al l of whi ch came up under a t i me of i nor di nat e st r ess

and ment al di st r ess f or me, never woul d have occurr ed, and B,

had t hey occur r ed, t he hear i ng, t he evi dence, woul d have been

subst ant i al l y mi t i gated by what i s now a di agnosed medi cal

condi t i on.

So my mot i on, as somet hi ng of al t er nat i ve r el i ef i s

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asked t hat t he mot i on t hat my ol d di sci pl i ne be r eopened and

t hat t hi s new evi dence be accept ed i nt o t hat r ecor d. Al t hough

we' r e st i l l her e under t he same docket , so I don' t know how - -

you know, t her e i s not hi ng t o go back and open except maybe

J udge Kane' s March 2010 order . And t hat i n l i ght of t hi s

mi t i gat i ng evi dence, I woul d be readmi t t ed pr ompt l y t o t he

Mi ddl e Di st r i ct Bar or r ol l of at t or neys, however we l abel i t .

Thank you f or t he oppor t uni t y. And now t o Mr . Gi l r oy t o

proceed.

THE COURT: Thank you. Mr . Gi l r oy.

MR. GILROY: Good mor ni ng, Your Honor . I bel i eve t he

pet i t i oner and I di sagr ee pr ocedur al l y as t o wher e we ar e.

By way of background, t he Pennsyl vani a Supr eme Cour t suspended

Mr . Ost r owski on Febr uary 9t h, 2010 f or one year and one day.

Thi s Cour t di d not t ake any evi dence but on March 23r d, 2010

i ssued a r eci pr ocal di sci pl i ne f or t he i dent i cal t i me. Ther e

wer e no pr oceedi ngs bef or e t hi s Cour t except f or t he i ssuance

of t he r eci pr ocal di sci pl i ne.

Mr . Ost r owski f i l ed wi t h t he Pennsyl vani a Supr eme

Cour t on May 10t h, 2013, and i t ' s at t ached t o hi s pet i t i on

bef or e thi s Cour t , a mot i on t o reopen the pr oceedi ngs wi t h t he

Pennsyl vani a Supreme Cour t . That mot i on and answer has been

f i l ed and i t ' s st i l l pendi ng. He t hen f i l es wi t h t hi s Cour t a

mot i on t o r eopen t he pr oceedi ngs/ r ei nst at e t o pr act i ce.

Pr ocedur al l y ther e i s no such cr eat ur e as a mot i on t o

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r eopen bef or e t hi s Cour t , Your Honor . Ther e i s not hi ng i n t he

r ul es. J ust as Mr . Ost r owski j ust sai d, t her e i s not hi ng t o

r eopen i n t he f eder al cour t because t hi s Cour t di dn' t t ake any

t est i mony. Al l of t he evi dence he j ust suggest ed he woul d

pr esent may be r el evant bef or e t he st at e cour t i f t hey

determi ne i f t hey are goi ng t o reopen and l ook at some

mi t i gat i ng evi dence and det er mi ne i f t he di sci pl i ne shoul d be

changed.

But t hi s Cour t , I ' m suggest i ng, i s l i mi t ed t o si mpl y

hi s pet i t i on f or r ei nst at ement , and t hat woul d f al l under Rul e

83. 26. 3 as t o hi s cur r ent f i t ness t o pr act i ce l aw, J udge.

So pr ocedur al l y, I ' m goi ng t o be obj ect i ng i f we' r e

goi ng to go back and see what happened f i ve, si x, seven year s

ago wi t h r espect t o hi s t r eat ment . I ' m suggest i ng t hi s Cour t

shoul d l i mi t i t s scope of i nvest i gat i on t o cur r ent l y what i s

hi s posi t i on and whet her he' s f i t t o pr act i ce l aw.

On t hat par t i cul ar i ssue, J udge, our sol e pr oof wi l l

be pr esent i ng evi dence f r om Mr . Ost r owski , i n l et t er s and

var i ous vi deos, wher e he has made a number of st atement s

concer ni ng j udges of t he Mi ddl e Di st r i ct , ot her j udges, t he

j udi ci ary i n gener al t hat we f eel t hi s Cour t coul d det ermi ne

wi l l put hi m i n vi ol at i on of Pennsyl vani a Rul e 8. 2 and 8. 4

r el at i ve t o t hose act i ons and t hat t hi s Cour t woul d t hen have a

basi s, i f Your Honor i s of a mi nd t o, t o deny the pet i t i on f or

r ei nst at ement .

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But I t hi nk i t ' s a mi st ake, and I ' m goi ng t o obj ect

f or t he r ecor d i f we' r e goi ng t o go back and determi ne whether

t her e i s mi t i gat i ng ci r cumst ances. I j ust don' t t hi nk t hi s

Cour t has j ur i sdi ct i on on t hat . That mat t er i s bef or e t he

Pennsyl vani a Supr eme Cour t . And al l t hi s Cour t di d was do t he

r eci pr ocal di sci pl i ne.

I woul d al so not e, J udge, t hat I know Mr . Ost r owski

has subpoenaed a wi t ness and t he wi t ness i s her e, but I want t o

poi nt out hi s counsel i s her e, Gar en Meguer i an.

MR. MEGUERIAN: Good morni ng, Your Honor .

THE COURT: Good mor ni ng.

MR. GILROY: I j ust want t o poi nt out t hat he i s her e

and he has f i l ed a mot i on, and j ust as a cour t esy t o f el l ow

counsel , I want t o al er t t he Cour t t hat he i s her e.

THE COURT: I appr eci ate t hat . Thank you ver y much.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Your Honor , si nce i t went t o l egal

argument , may I make a br i ef st atement ?

THE COURT: You may.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Pr ocedur al l y, r egar dl ess of me not

havi ng a hear i ng, t here was an order by t he Cour t dated March

23r d, 2010 wher e t her e were no pr ehear i ng memoranda order and

t her e wer e no pr ehear i ng pr ocedur es i n pl ace. I n f act , Mr .

Gi l r oy was not even di r ect ed t o f i l e the response whi ch woul d

have hel ped us t o f l esh out some of t hese i ssues.

Regar dl ess, Rul e 59 and 60, par t i cul ar l y Rul e 60( b)

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f or openi ng pr i or j udgment s, pr i or or der s, woul d pr ovi de the

l egal cont ext i n whi ch t hi s ol d di sci pl i ne coul d go back and

r eopen.

Set t hat i ssue asi de, secondl y, under t he Rul e 86. 23. 3

st andar d, whi ch requi r es me to demonst r ate my compet ence - -

l et ' s see, mor al qual i f i cat i ons, compet ency and l ear ni ng, you

know, t he medi cal evi dence, my pr i or di sci pl i ne i n 2009 whi ch

was adopt ed - - or 2010 whi ch was adopt ed by t hi s Cour t , had

some si gni f i cant evi dence about my ment al competency t hat woul d

r ai se r easonabl e quest i on.

I mean, you know, I don' t - - I t al k of t hi s

mat t er - of - f act l y wi t h peopl e because I under st and what my

hi st or y l ooks l i ke t o ot her peopl e. And r egar dl ess, f or me t o

be admi t t ed wi t h t he r ecor d t hat i s al r eady i n t hi s Cour t , t hat

evi dence woul d be r el evant t o t hi s Rul e 83. 26. 3 st andar d.

Wi t h al l t hat bei ng sai d, I di d want Mr . Bai l ey t o

make a mot i on on t he Rul e 86. 23. 3 st andar d pr el i mi nar i l y bef or e

we proceed.

THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Ar e you r eady t o do t hat at

t hi s poi nt , Mr . Bai l ey?

MR. BAILEY: Yes, si r . J udge, woul d you gi ve me

per mi ssi on t o addr ess you si t t i ng down? I have hor r i bl y bad

l egs t hat ar e - -

THE COURT: I t ' s har d t o st and up? That ' s per f ect l y

f i ne.

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MR. BAILEY: I coul d act ual l y show t hem t o you.

THE COURT: That ' s per f ect l y f i ne. Go r i ght ahead.

You may address me f r om t he seat ed posi t i on.

MR. BAILEY: Thank you, si r , ver y much. Your Honor , I

woul d onl y t ake one mi nut e. I am aski ng t he Cour t f or

per mi ssi on t o mot i on t he Cour t and br i ef . The i ssues of t he

r ul es put us i n a l i mi t ed ent r y of appear ance. Mi ddl e Di st r i ct

Rul e 83. 26. 3 and Pennsyl vani a Rul es of Prof essi onal Conduct

8. 2, r eal l y on Fi r st Amendment gr ounds, Your Honor , f aci al l y,

t hat mot i on and t he br i ef i n suppor t woul d addr ess t he i ssue of

pr otected speech.

Wi t h t he underst andi ng, and Mr . Gi l r oy was ki nd enough

t o copy me on a response t o Mr . St r et t on, and t hat ' s what

creat ed t hi s i nt er est , on t he use of hi s Pennsyl vani a - - PCLRN

I bel i eve. I t ' s a websi t e Mr . Ost r owski r uns. And my

cont ent i on i s - - I have not r ead ever ythi ng on t he websi t e,

si r . But i t i s my cont ent i on f r om what I have seen, i t ' s

cl ear l y pr ot ected speech. Faci al l y t hi s Cour t obvi ousl y - - I

bel i eve i f t hi s Cour t wer e t o see i t , i t coul d r ai se gr eat

concerns.

THE COURT: Gr eat concerns about what?

MR. BAILEY: About t he nat ur e of t hese rul es and t hei r

Fi r st Amendment st at us. They ar e cl ear l y unconst i t ut i onal .

Cl ear l y. Fi r st year l aw school t ype cl ear l y unconst i t ut i onal .

THE COURT: Wel l , I guess I ' m not f ol l owi ng you. Ar e

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you t el l i ng me t hat t hi s Cour t has i n some way shut down t hi s

websi t e?

MR. BAILEY: No, si r .

THE COURT: Then what ar e you t al ki ng about ? I don' t

f ol l ow you.

MR. BAILEY: I bel i eve t hat t he r ul es t hat ar e bei ng

used ar e unconst i t ut i onal as wr i t t en and as appl i ed.

THE COURT: Oh. Al l r i ght .

MR. BAILEY: And al l I want ed t o do, si r - -

THE COURT: What ' s your aut hor i t y f or t hat ?

MR. BAILEY: My aut hor i t y f or t hat woul d be t he Fi r st

Amendment t o t he U. S. Const i t ut i on.

THE COURT: No. No. No. I under st and t hat . But

what ' s your aut hor i t y? Ci t e your case or st at ut or y aut hor i t y.

MR. BAILEY: Case of st at ut or y aut hor i t y?

THE COURT: Yes. Case or st at ut or y aut hor i t y. I

underst and t he Fi r st Amendment . I underst and you' r e speaki ng

br oadl y. But what case l aw suppor t s t hat ? What st at ut ory

aut hor i t y beyond sayi ng t hat i t ' s si mpl y a vi ol at i on of t he

Fi r st Amendment r i ght s? What case aut hor i t y woul d be hel pf ul

and gui de t he Cour t and be per suasi ve aut hor i t y t o t hi s Cour t ?

MR. BAILEY: Wel l , t hat ' s what I want ed t o put i n t he

mot i on and br i ef . But i n Mr . Ost r owski ' s mot i on t o t hi s Cour t ,

I bel i eve i t ' s a mot i on i n l i mi ne. Now, I am not - - I di dn' t

wr i t e t hi s thi ng so I ' m not so i nt i mat el y f ami l i ar wi t h i t , but

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I am f ami l i ar wi t h some of t he cases, Your Honor ; par t i cul ar l y

t he Gent i l e case, Gent i l e, commonl y used i n comment s al l across

t he count r y on i ssues ref er r i ng t o at t or ney di sci pl i ne.

There are al so i ssues concerni ng at t orney di sci pl i ne

not onl y i n Pennsyl vani a' s Const i t ut i on, wher e aut hor i t y i s

vest ed i n t he Supr eme Cour t i nci dent al l y, t o admi ni st er

at t or ney aut hor i t y. You know, t o - - and moder at e i s t he wr ong

wor d. But t he di sci pl i nar y pr ocess on at t or ney l i censi ng.

There are no such provi si ons i n t he f ederal Const i t ut i on. Thi s

i s a whol e new era and a whol e new ar ea wher e many at t or neys

and many i nt erest gr oups across t he count r y ar e argui ng t hese

i ssues.

I wasn' t pr epar ed t o ar gue t he subst ance of t he

mot i on. Of cour se, I have no br i ef i ng f or t oday. I was mer el y

aski ng i f you woul d pr ovi de me permi ssi on t o make a mot i on and

t o br i ef i t and ask Your Honor t o consi der i t . That ' s al l .

THE COURT: Yes, I woul d consi der t hat . And t her e

wi l l be a br i ef i ng schedul e t hat wi l l be i mposed at t he

concl usi on of t oday' s hear i ng. And i f you car e t o of f er a

br i ef i n suppor t of t hi s posi t i on, you' r e wel come t o do so.

MR. BAILEY: I cannot ask mor e of t hi s Cour t , si r .

I ' m gr at ef ul t o you.

THE COURT: Anyt hi ng el se pr el i mi nar i l y?

Mr . Gi l r oy, do you car e to respond t o thi s i n any way?

MR. GILROY: J ust f or cl ar i f i cat i on, I don' t know i f a

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mot i on has been f i l ed or i s t hi s t he i nt ent i on t o f i l e a

mot i on?

MR. BAILEY: I f el t t hat I had a dut y t o ask t hi s

J udge f or per mi ssi on t o f i l e t he mot i on. So I put i t i n t hat

f or m. I t i s actual l y a per mi ssi on t o f i l e a mot i on, wi t h

suppor t i ng br i ef . I bel i eve Hi s Honor has al r eady r ul ed on

t hat . But Mr . Gi l r oy, t her e i s not - - no.

THE COURT: Ther e i s not a mot i on bef or e t he Cour t , i s

t her e, Mr . Bai l ey?

MR. BAILEY: Yes, si r . You' r e r i ght .

THE COURT: You ar e ant i ci pat i ng t hat you ar e goi ng t o

f i l e one. You woul d l i ke t o f i l e t he mot i on, you woul d l i ke t o

f i l e a br i ef i n suppor t of t hat and wi l l be abl e t o do t hat .

That ' s f i ne.

MR. BAILEY: Thank you, si r .

THE COURT: That ' s f i ne. Go ahead, Mr . Gi l r oy.

MR. GILROY: Not hi ng f ur t her , J udge.

THE COURT: Ready t o proceed?


THE COURT: Mr . Ost r owski , cal l your f i r st wi t ness,

who I bel i eve i s a wi t ness who wi l l be obt ai ned t el ephoni cal l y.

I s t hat my underst andi ng?

MR. OSTROWSKI: May I ask t he quest i ons si t t i ng?

THE COURT: That ' s f i ne wi t h me. You may quest i on

f r om counsel t abl e or f r om t he podi um. Pul l t he mi crophones a

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l i t t l e cl oser .

MR. GILROY: Your Honor , i f I may i nt er r upt . I

apol ogi ze. I under st ood t hat per haps Dr . Kr uszewski , i f I ' m

pr onounci ng t hat cor r ect l y, was goi ng t o be t he f i r st wi t ness.

And I j ust - - wel l , basi cal l y on hi s counsel ' s behal f , he came

up her e and he' s f r om Paol i . Woul d t he Cour t consi der

di sposi ng of t hat wi t ness f i r st ?

THE COURT: I woul d but - -

MR. GILROY: I t ' s not my case, but I ' m j ust t r yi ng t o

show cour t esi es t o f el l ow counsel and i t - -

THE COURT: I - -

MR. GILROY: I have an obj ect i on as t o rel evancy of

hi s t est i mony, so t hat mi ght be r ul ed on. We mi ght be goi ng

home qui ckl y i f t he Cour t sust ai ns my obj ect i on.

THE COURT: I underst and t hat . My underst andi ng was

i t was a Dr . Schwar t z. I s that cor r ect , Mr . Ost r owski ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: That ' s cor r ect , Your Honor .

THE COURT: That you want ed t o r each t el ephoni cal l y.

How l ong woul d hi s exami nat i on be, woul d you t hi nk?

MR. OSTROWSKI: I don' t see hi s exami nat i on t aki ng

more t han 10 or 15 mi nut es.

THE COURT: I woul d l i ke t o pr oceed t hen wi t h t he

t el ephoni c wi t ness. And are we r eady t o do t hat? We have a

t el ephone number f or hi m, Mr . Ost r owski ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Yes. I gave i t t o Kat hy.

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THE COURT: And Dr . Schwar t z i s ant i ci pat i ng t he

Cour t ' s cal l ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: He i s. He i s avai l abl e r i ght now.

THE COURT: Mr s. McLaughl i n, do you want t o pl ace t hat

cal l , or Mr s. Campbel l make t hat cal l , pl ease.

( pause. )

"MITCH": Good mor ni ng, Dr . Schwar t z' s of f i ce.

MR. OSTROWSKI: I s t hi s Mi t ch?

"MITCH": Yes.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Mi t ch, t hi s i s Andy Ost r owski . We ar e

i n t he f eder al cour t r oom and Dr . Schwar t z i s expect i ng my cal l .

"MITCH": Okay. Hol d on a second, pl ease.

THE WITNESS: Hel l o.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Good morni ng, Mr . Schwart z. Andy

Ost r owski .

THE WITNESS: Hey.

MR. OSTROWSKI: I ' m i n t he cour t r oom and we ar e on t he

r ecor d i n t he mi dst of t he pr oceedi ng. The J udge has

aut hor i zed me t o cal l you as my f i r st wi t ness. Ar e you r eady

t o pr oceed?

THE WITNESS: Sur e. Can you hear me okay?

MR. OSTROWSKI: I can hear you f i ne. Ever ybody can

hear you f i ne, I bel i eve. Can you hear me okay?

THE WITNESS: Yes.

THE COURT: Dr . Schwar t z, t hi s i s Mat t hew Br ann. I ' m

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SCHWARTZ - DIRECT

a f eder al j udge si t t i ng i n Wi l l i amspor t , Pennsyl vani a. And my

cour t r oom deput y, Kat hy McLaughl i n, i s goi ng t o swear you i n.

Ar e you r eady t o t ake an oat h?

THE WITNESS: Sur e.

THE COURT: Mr s. McLaughl i n, wi l l you admi ni st er t hat

oat h, pl ease?

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Yes.

STEPHEN SCHWARTZ,

cal l ed as a wi t ness on behal f of t he Pl ai nt i f f , havi ng been

dul y swor n or af f i r med accor di ng t o l aw, t est i f i ed as f ol l ows.

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Pl ease st at e your name f or t he

r ecor d.

THE WITNESS: Stephen Schwart z.

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Thank you.

THE COURT: Al l r i ght , Mr . Ost r owski , you may pr oceed

t o exami ne t hi s wi t ness.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Thank you, J udge.

DI RECT EXAMI NATI ON

BY MR. OSTROWSKI

Q. Dr . Schwart z, coul d you j ust summari ze your

qual i f i cat i ons, l i censi ng, stat us, and cer t i f i cat i ons and

t hi ngs l i ke t hat ; educat i onal hi st or y br i ef l y, pl ease.

A. I ' m a medi cal doct or . Gr aduat ed f r om Thomas J ef f er son

Uni ver si t y i n 1980. I have had my own f ami l y pr act i ce f or t he

l ast 25 year s her e i n Lancast er wi t h my wi f e. I ' m boar d

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SCHWARTZ - DIRECT

cer t i f i ed i n emer gency medi ci ne, pr act i ci ng t hat al so f or t he

l ast 25 year s, and cer t i f i ed i n medi cal acupunct ur e and

l i censed t hr ough t he St at e of Pennsyl vani a.

Q. Okay. And i s i t f ai r t o say t hat you have t he nat ur e of a

hol i st i c t ype of pr acti ce?

A. Yes. Our f ami l y pract i ce i s - - wel l , i t was a t r adi t i onal

f ami l y pr act i ce pr obabl y f or about t en year s, and t hen when we

i nt r oduced t r adi t i onal Chi nese medi ci ne, whi ch my wi f e and I

ar e bot h ext ensi vel y t r ai ned, t hen i t ki nd of shi f t ed. Now

i t ' s mor e of a hol i st i c pr acti ce. But we st i l l have t he

abi l i t y t o pr act i ce, you know, t r adi t i onal west er n medi ci ne, as

wel l . I t ' s a combi ned pr act i ce basi cal l y.

Q. Ri ght . And t her e ar e t i mes, i f appr opr i at e, you pr escr i be

medi cat i ons f or pat i ent s and t hi ngs of t hat nat ur e. Cor r ect ?

A. Sur e.

Q. Or or der addi t i onal t est i ng; X- r ays, MRI s, what ever i t

t akes. Cor r ect ?

A. What ever i s appr opr i at e.

Q. Okay. And now Doctor, I asked you t o have i n f r ont of you

t he May 3r d, 2013 cor r espondence that you pr epared, ' To Whomi t

May Concer n' r egardi ng me. Do you have t hat bef ore you?

A. Yes.

Q. And j ust f or t he recor d I have t hat mar ked her e, and I

bel i eve t he J udge has a copy, wi t h Pl ai nt i f f ' s Exhi bi t 1 on i t .

And coul d you i dent i f y what t hat i s?

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SCHWARTZ - DIRECT

A. I t ' s basi cal l y j ust a pr ogr ess l et t er t hat I wr ot e f or you

or on your behal f at t hat t i me, whi ch was appr oxi mat el y I woul d

say si x i s weeks af t er you st ar t ed comi ng her e as a pat i ent .

Q. Okay. And I had di scussed wi t h you my l i censi ng st atus

and a l ot of my hi st or y dur i ng our vi si t s up t o t hat t i me. I s

that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And I ' m j ust goi ng t o - - j ust so we' r e al l

oper at i ng on t he same page, and i f t he Cour t i ndul ges me, i t ' s

a pr et t y shor t l et t er , I ' m goi ng t o r ead t hat i nt o t he r ecor d.

MR. OSTROWSKI: May I , Your Honor?

THE COURT: You may. But t he l et t er speaks f or

i t sel f . The Cour t can r ead t he l et t er . Mr . Gi l r oy, I assume

you have a copy of t hi s?

MR. GILROY: Yes, J udge.

MR. OSTROWSKI: That ' s f i ne. I don' t thi nk i t ' s

necessary ei t her .

BY MR. OSTROWSKI

Q. Now, I ' m goi ng t o ask you some quest i ons about t hat . Now,

have you r evi ewed any of my pr i or r ecords?

A. Yes.

Q. And what pr i or r ecor ds of mi ne have you r evi ewed?

A. Wel l , you suppl i ed me wi t h r ecor ds basi cal l y f r om t he

f or mer Sai nt J oe' s Hospi t al i n Lancast er r el at i ng t o your bur n

i nj ur y and car e when you wer e ei ght year s ol d. So I ' ve got

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SCHWARTZ - DIRECT

t hat . And t her e wer e basi cal l y t wo set s of r ecor ds associ at ed

wi t h t hat because I guess you had a hospi t al i zat i on, and t hen

you came back f or a second pr ocedur e. So basi cal l y t hose are

t he r ecor ds t hat I have got .

Q. Okay. Because i n t hi s Exhi bi t 1, your May 3r d, 2013

l et t er , you sai d we ar e sti l l wai t i ng f or ol d - - addi t i onal ol d

r ecor ds. Woul d t hose be among t he r ecords you were wai t i ng

for?

A. Yes.

Q. And have you r ecei ved any ot her r ecor ds f r omme?

A. No, not speci f i cal l y.

Q. Okay. And I - - I t al ked t o you about a Dr . St ef an

Kr uszewski and my t r eat ment wi t h hi m. Corr ect?

A. Cor r ect .

Q. And we wer en' t abl e t o get any - - I haven' t suppl i ed you

wi t h any r ecor ds f r om hi m. I s t hat al so cor r ect ?

A. Cor r ect .

Q. Okay. I n your st at ement - - t he f i r st sent ence, does t hat

cont ai n what your di agnosi s i s of me i s?

A. Yeah. I mean, I woul d say - - you know, what pat i ent s t el l

me basi cal l y t hat ' s - - you know, t hat ' s l ar gel y t he basi s f or

what t hei r di agnosi s can be cal l ed. And you know, t hat was t he

di agnosi s essent i al l y t hat you gave me when you came. And I

saw no r eason t o - - I agr ee wi t h t hat . I t sounds appr opr i at e.

Q. Okay. But you - - so t hat di agnosi s t hat you agr ee t o i s

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post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der . Cor r ect ?

A. Yes. I mean, t hat ' s l argel y t he r eason t hat you came t o

see me f or t r eat ment , I bel i eve. And i n my not es, i n my of f i ce

notes basi cal l y t hat ' s the second word, PTSD. You know, when

peopl e come i n I ask what t hey' r e her e f or , and t hat ' s what you

t ol d me and t hat ' s how I wr ote i t down.

Q. Okay. But you concur i n t hat and t hat i s your operat i ng

di agnosi s of me. Cor r ect ?

A. Yes. I t seems t o be consi st ent wi t h what ' s goi ng on and

appr opr i at e.

Q. Yes. And t hen I j ust want t o ask you, i n t he second

sent ence you say, " I t seems f ai r l y obvi ous t hat he has car r i ed

t hi s t r auma wi t h hi m f or t he past 40 year s. " Can you el abor at e

upon what you meant by i t i s f ai r l y obvi ous?

A. Wel l , agai n, when pat i ent s come to see me, you know, I

base a good part of my underst andi ng of t hemon what t hey tel l

me. And so al so a l ot of what I do i s I f eed back t o t he

pat i ent s what I t hi nk can hel p t hem. And agai n, t hat ' s l ar gel y

based on what t hey t el l me. So a l ot of t hi s rel at es t o t he

hi st or y t hat I obt ai ned f r om you. And so you know, t hat woul d

be - - t hat woul d be par t of under st andi ng of your pr obl em. And

you know, t hat woul d basi cal l y be a r easonabl e way t o phr ase

i t . So I see no r eason t o r eal l y el abor at e on i t . I t ki nd of

speaks f or i t sel f . You know, t hat ' s why I guess I sai d i t was

f ai r l y obvi ous.

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Q. Okay. So t hat i ncl udes then t he hi st or y t hat I - - t he

or al hi st or y t hat I pr esent ed t o you and t hi ngs t hat I

pr esent ed t o you i n wr i t i ng about what my personal exper i ences

wi t h my pr i or medi cal hi st or y have been. I s that - - i s that a

f ai r way t o say t hat ?

A. Sur e. Sur e. And you know, I ' ve seen enough post t r aumat i c

st r ess scenar i os t o be abl e t o see whet her i t ' s appr opr i at e or

not i n t er ms of a descr i pt i on of - - you know, or at l east t he

way that you descr i be i t , I saw no r eason t o quest i on t hat .

I t ' s not a r ed f l ag. I t seems appr opr i at e.

Q. And you do go on and you t al k about my pr i or 40 year s

sayi ng t hat you' r e awar e t hat I had seen mul t i pl e physi ci ans

and speci al i st s, t hat I had been hospi t al i zed and t hi ngs of

t hat nat ur e. I di scussed al l t hat wi t h you. Cor r ect ?

A. Cor r ect .

Q. I di scussed t hi ngs l i ke, you know, anxi et y and sl eep

pr obl ems and even subst ance abuse i ssues and al l of t hose, you

know, di f f i cul t i es and copi ng mechani sms. Cor r ect ?

A. Cor r ect . I n my of f i ce not es on t he f i r st vi si t , t he f i r st

word i s anxi ety. Second word i s PTSD.

Q. Now, can you j ust general l y di scuss, how many t i mes have I

vi si t ed wi t h you ei t her t el ephoni cal l y or of f i ce appoi nt ment s

over t he past , I guess i t ' s gone on about si x mont hs now?

A. The f i r st vi si t was March 22nd, and t her e' s been ei ght

vi si t s .

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Q. Okay. And can you j ust descr i be f or t he Cour t what t hose

ei ght vi si t s ent ai l ed?

A. Wel l , t he f i r st vi si t ' s ext ensi ve and i nvol ves hi st or y, of

cour se. And hi st or y consi st s of bot h west er n di agnosi s, i f

i t ' s okay t o descr i be i t t hat way, because I ' m an emer gency

r oom physi ci an and a f ami l y pr act i t i oner , and t hen al so a

Chi nese di agnosi s, because l argel y what we have f ound i s most

ef f ect i ve f or t hi s i s medi cal acupunct ur e or a combi nat i on of

t hat and Chi nese her bs or what ver . That ' s an east er n

di agnosi s.

The hi st ory t akes usual l y at l east an hour. I n your case

i t was much l onger because I spent a l ong t i me speaki ng wi t h

you about - - your hi st or y was extensi ve. I t cover s 40 year s.

I t t ook a l onger t i me t han usual . Basi cal l y t hat ' s a l ar ge

par t of t he f i r st t r eat ment .

And t hen medi cal acupunct ur e i s pr et t y st r ai ght f or war d.

I t ' s a t r eat ment t hat i nvol ves needl es. And we di d t hat

basi cal l y f r om t he f i r st t i me you st ar t ed comi ng, we gave you

t hat exper i ence and t r eat ment . And you know, t hat ' s - - i t ' s

been f ol l ow- up vi si t s af t er t hat i n t er ms of not i ng your

pr ogr ess.

I don' t bel i eve t he f i r st vi si t we di d an acupunct ur e

t r eat ment , but we have done one on each of t he subsequent

vi si t s. So i t l ooks l i ke you' ve had seven acupunct ur e

t r eat ment s.

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Q. As f ar as you know i n t erms of my report s t o you over t he

t i me, have I f ol l owed al l r ecommendat i ons and t r i ed t o

i ncor por at e t he t hi ngs you' ve sai d i nt o my l i f est yl e?

A. Yeah. I mean, we' ve seen good progr ess. Li ke I sai d, t he

l et t er i s j ust shor t and conci se. But basi cal l y what ever

det ai l you woul d l i ke me t o go i n t o, I coul d. So f ar t her e' s

been a good r esponse, and agai n, i t ' s consi st ent wi t h t he

di agnosi s and consi st ent wi t h t he r esponses we t ypi cal l y see.

There i s not hi ng i n your case t hat i s t hat unusual f r om t he

st andpoi nt i n t er ms of ot her pat i ent s we have seen i n t erms of

bur n i nj ur i es or wor kman' s comp i nj ur i es or acci dent s even.

We' r e of t en t i mes the doct or of l ast r esort . Somet i mes

peopl e have seen 10 or 15 speci al i st s bef or e t hey see us. So

you know, t hi s was - - t hi s wasn' t an except i onal case, you

know, ot her t han t he f act t hat you' r e a pr of essi onal and some

of t he other t hi ngs t hat you have gone t hr ough i n t erms of your

pr of essi onal l i f e, t hat makes i t mor e uni que. But ot her wi se,

i t ' s consi st ent wi t h what we see and your r esponse i s

consi st ent wi t h what we see al so.

Q. Okay. And t here are - - you don' t have me pr escr i bed any

medi cat i ons or anythi ng l i ke t hat . Cor r ect ?

A. Cor r ect .

Q. And have I , you know, kept you post ed out si de of , you

know, what t hi ngs I ' m doi ng f or mysel f , you know, out si de of my

appoi nt ment s wi t h you?

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A. I t ' s al l been ver y posi t i ve. Ther e i s not hi ng t o r epor t

t hat ' s a r ed f l ag of any ki nd t o me. And agai n, you know, I ' m

pl eased wi t h your pr ogr ess and I t hi nk you ar e, t oo. And

agai n, you know, we' r e used t o seei ng t hi s. Ever ybody i s

di f f er ent . Ever y case i s di f f er ent . But you f i t r i ght i n t o

t he pat t er n of t hi ngs t hat we have seen al ong t hese l i nes.

You' ve had a very posi t i ve r esponse. That al ways t hr i l l s us.

Ever y t i me i t happens, even t hough we' r e used t o i t , because

i t ' s j ust very grat i f yi ng. So. . .

Q. And al l of your t r eat ment s and subsequent f ol l ow- ups wi t h

me have been cent ered on t r eat i ng t hi s anxi et y or post t r aumat i c

str ess di sor der . I s t hat f ai r t o say?

A. Wel l , I mean, we t r y not t o get t oo hung up on di agnoses.

Fr omt he very begi nni ng obvi ousl y we need to get some

backgr ound and we need t o have the di agnosi s f or var i ous

r easons. I t gi ves us a st ar t i ng poi nt . But t he whol e poi nt of

t he t r eat ment i s a combi nat i on of bal anci ng, you know.

And t hat ' s a combi nat i on of , you know, our exper i ence wi t h

west ern medi ci ne and Chi nese medi ci ne and the f act t hat west ern

medi ci ne i n cer t ai n ar eas of chr oni c i l l ness, emot i onal l y or

st r ess- r el at ed t hi ngs, somet i mes we f i nd t hat t he acupunct ur e

wor ks bet t er t han t he west er n medi ci ne. I t doesn' t have any

si de ef f ect s. The r esul t s ar e mor e pr of ound and posi t i ve i n a

l ot of cases. I t ' s one of t he r easons why we do t hi s; when we

i nt r oduced i t i nt o our pr act i ce, we j ust saw some t er r i f i c

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r esul t s. I t j ust ki nd of gr ew and t hen we got mor e and mor e

t r ai ni ng. And so - -

Q. Wel l , maybe i t wasn' t pr oper f or me to use t hose words of

di agnosi s i n t her e. But f or exampl e, when you' r e doi ng

acupunct ur e, you don' t use t he same pat t ern wi t h ever y one of

your pat i ent s. Cor r ect ?

A. Ever y pat i ent i s di f f er ent .

Q. Okay. And you use your acupunct ure wi t h me, f or exampl e,

t he pat t er n t hat you set up and use of t he needl es i s accor di ng

t o your assessment of my, you know, physi cal / spi r i t ual / ment al

condi t i on and, you know, your pr of essi onal j udgment as t o how

i t shoul d be t r eat ed. Cor r ect ?

A. Cor r ect . And t her e ar e cer t ai n i mbal ances. We al l have

t hem. I t ' s a f l ui d t hi ng. I t ' s not set i n st one. I t changes

f r omday t o day. But we assess each t i me you come your bal ance

accor di ng t o cer t ai n t heor i es, and one of t he t heor i es i n

Chi nese medi ci ne has t o do wi t h your di f f er ent or gans. So we

t r y t o bal ance t hose organs. And you know, of cour se we can

have t he over al l concept of PTSD or depr essi on or anxi et y or

what ever i t may happen t o be.

But basi cal l y each t i me you come i n we' r e j ust t r yi ng t o

hel p you achi eve bal ance so that your body recogni zes i t and

can mai nt ai n t hat bal ance. I t coul d r eset i t sel f when i t goes

of f . I t can be consci ous enough or aware enough of what your

bal ance shoul d be when you' r e pl aced back i nt o bal ance so t hat

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i f you t end t o go of f bal ance, you can cor r ect i t your sel f .

And t he dr ugs t hat are used of t en t i mes, you know, i n our

west er n pr act i ce somet i mes i nt er f er e wi t h t hat . So i t ' s

actual l y bet t er i f you' r e not on t he dr ugs, i f you can do i t .

I n your case we haven' t deal t wi t h dr ugs at al l t he whol e t i me.

You haven' t needed t hem and we haven' t used t hem.

Q. Okay. So i s i t f ai r t o say t hen t hat you' r e t r eat i ng - -

t hat I ' m get t i ng back i nt o t hi s bal ance t hat you ar e t r yi ng t o

achi eve? I ' m on t hat pat h of pr ogr ess?

A. Yeah. I mean, I ' m happy f or you. I t hi nk you are

showi ng - - I t hi nk you ar e showi ng your sel f t o be goi ng i n a

heal t hy di r ect i on basi cal l y i n al l aspects of what I can t el l .

So t hat ' s ki nd of what we' r e al l about . And I ' m happy t o

r epor t t hat t hat ' s what ' s goi ng on wi t h you. I ' m happy t o

hel p. I f t hi s hel ps you, hopef ul l y - - I mean, agai n, I ' m happy

t o hel p you however I can. That ' s how we ar e wi t h al l of our

pat i ent s. But i t ' s ver y gr at i f yi ng, par t i cul ar l y when someone

has been goi ng t hr ough somethi ng f or 40 years and we st ar t t o

see i t - - you know, st ar t t o see i t t ur ni ng ar ound.

Q. Woul d you agree that communi cat i ng t he di agnosi s and

t r eat ment i nf or mat i on wi t h t he pat i ent i s an i mpor t ant par t of

t he t r eat ment ?

A. I t ' s an i mpor t ant par t of our t r eat ment .

Q. Okay. And i f you had met me t en years ago, woul d you have

expect ed anythi ng di f f er ent i n t er ms of di agnosi s, t r eat ment ,

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t hi ngs of t hat nat ur e?

A. Obvi ousl y agai n si nce i t ' s a f l ui d si t uat i on, i t ' s har d

t o - - i t ' s har d t o say. You know, t hi ngs happen i n cont ext and

t hat ' s taki ng i t pr et t y f ar out of cont ext . But we woul dn' t

have done anythi ng di f f erent i f you pr esent ed t he same way.

You know, I mean i f you had di f f erent l i f e ci r cumst ances or

di f f er ent t hi ngs. You know, agai n, your i mbal ances now ver sus

t en year s ago or your bal ances, f or t hat mat t er , i t ' s not al l

negat i ve, woul d maybe have been di f f er ent and we may have had a

di f f er ent appr oach or a di f f er ent assessment or a di f f er ent

t r eat ment .

Al l I can r eal l y speak f or i s t oday or , you know, t hi s

cur r ent cour se. But I can say t hat , you know, i f you woul d

have seen us t en year s ago, I don' t t hi nk we woul d necessar i l y

have done anythi ng di f f erent based on t he f act t hat , you know,

a l ot of your t hi ngs have been goi ng on f or 40 year s, I don' t

know t hat t en year s ago i t woul d have been t hat di f f er ent .

Q. And woul d you - - wi t h ever yt hi ng t hat you know about me,

woul d you have expect ed my adj ust ment and pr ogr ess t o have been

t he same?

A. I woul d hope so. Agai n, you know, every case i s

di f f er ent . Thi ngs change i n and out of cont ext . But sure, you

know, we' r e used t o good r esul t s wi t h peopl e. And so I don' t

know why you woul dn' t have responded t en year s t o t he same ki nd

of t r eat ment i f you came i n wi t h t he same ki nd of i ssues.

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MR. OSTROWSKI: Okay. Thank you, Dr . Schwar t z.

That ' s al l I have at t hi s poi nt .

THE COURT: Mr . Gi l r oy, woul d you car e to cr oss

exami ne?

MR. GILROY: Yes.

CROSS EXAMI NATI ON

BY MR. GILROY

Q. Dr . Schwar t z, t hi s i s Huber t Gi l r oy. I ' m goi ng t o be

aski ng you a f ew quest i ons.

A. Sur e.

Q. Doct or , ot her t han t he st andar d t r ai ni ng ever y medi cal

st udent r ecei ves i n medi cal school wi t h r espect t o

psychot herapy and psychol ogy, have you had any speci al i zed

t r ai ni ng i n t hose f i el ds?

A. Speci al i zed t r ai ni ng? No. I can t el l you t hi s. I mean,

i t j ust pl ays i nt o my exper i ence. I t wasn' t speci al i zed

t r ai ni ng but . . .

Q. Ot her t han your l i f e exper i ences, have you had any

speci al i zed t r ai ni ng i n t hose year s?

A. Wel l , j ust l et me say basi cal l y I was t he di r ector of a

subst ance abuse pr ogr am f or a year i n an i npat i ent f aci l i t y.

That happened by def aul t . I was cover i ng f or a guy who was t he

di r ect or who worked f or me i n t he emergency room at t he t i me.

Thi s was about maybe 15 or 20 year s ago. He l ef t . So t hey

asked me i f I woul d f i l l i n, and I ended up doi ng t hat f or a

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year . So I had t o st udy on my own, but I di dn' t have speci al

t r ai ni ng. But I had speci al exper i ence t hr ough t hat year .

Q. Doct or , have you ever i n t he past been qual i f i ed as an

exper t wi t ness i n any cour t of l aw wi t h r espect t o gi vi ng an

opi ni on on someone' s ment al heal t h?

A. No.

Q. Am I cor r ect t hat you sai d t hat t he f i r st t wo t hi ngs you

wr ote down i n your not es when you met wi t h Mr . Ost r owski was

anxi et y and post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der ?

A. Yes. Yes. I don' t know i f you heard me or not .

Q. I di d not hear you. Thank you. So i n f act , Mr . Ost r owski

showed up at your of f i ce and he suggest ed t o you t hat he

suf f er ed f r om anxi et y and post t r aumat i c st r ess di sor der ?

A. Yes.

Q. And your t r eat ment af t er t hat f i r st vi si t , you' ve had si x

or seven ot her vi si t s, has been t o t r eat Mr . Ost r owski wi t h

acupunct ur e?

A. Yeah, basi cal l y t hat ' s been t he t r eat ment .

Q. Okay. And any other t r eat ment ?

A. Wel l , we' ve had a l ot of di scussi ons - - you know, t hi s i s

j ust sor t of somet hi ng per sonal i n our l i f e. But t he basi s of

our pr act i ce her e i s spi r i t ual . So we have had a l ot of

spi r i t ual di scussi ons. That may or may not have a - - I don' t

know how t hat t r ansl ates i nt o what you are aski ng me.

But t o me, i n my experi ence, and you know, l i ke what I saw

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when I was r unni ng t he subst ance abuse uni t , you know, some

years ago i s when peopl e i mpr ove i n t erms of any subst ance

abuse i ssues whi ch, you know, came up i n t he cour se of our

di scussi ons t oo, gener al l y what cr eat ed per manent cur es had t o

do wi t h spi r i t ual conver si ons. I spoke wi t h t hat because

t hat ' s based on my experi ence. I spoke wi t h Andy.

He act ual l y came i n t he f i r st t i me to screen me, t o ask me

quest i ons t o see i f he f el t i t was appr opr i at e f or hi m t o come

see me and i f I woul d be somebody who coul d hel p hi m. That was

somet hi ng we got i nt o, because that ' s sor t of t he basi s of my

t r eat ment . You know, he was ver y open t o t hat . I n f act , he - -

t hat was - - he was comf or t abl e wi t h t hat .

So I woul d say t hat t hat ' s anot her par t of t he t r eat ment .

We have had spi r i t ual di scussi ons, because t o me that ' s what

makes a per manent di f f er ence i n your l i f e. I t ' s not j ust

subst i t ut i ng one pr obl em f or anot her or one addi ct i on f or

anot her , i f you want t o use t hat wor d or what ever . I t ' s havi ng

a t r ue change i n your l i f e. And t o me t hat ' s a spi r i t ual

t hi ng. That ' s not somet hi ng t hat a doct or or a t echni ci an can

necessar i l y say t hey wer e t he causes of i t . You know, i f Andy

get s cur ed, i t ' s not f r om me. I ' m mer el y an i nst r ument .

So I want ed i t t o be under st ood f r om t he begi nni ng. We' r e

t al ki ng about spi r i t ual mat t er s, bal ance i n hi s l i f e and

somet hi ng t hat ' s beyond t echnol ogy. So t he t echnol ogy I used

i n t erms of acupunct ur e or whatever modal i t y or any dr ug, even

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i f I wer e t o use t hat , t hat woul dn' t be what cur es hi m. What

cur es hi m i s f r om a hi gher sour ce. You know, he was

quest i oni ng me how I operate. I expl ai ned t hat t o hi m. He was

f i ne wi t h i t . Acupunct ur e i s si mpl y one of t he modal i t i es we

used. He may get more out of somethi ng el se t hat we t al k

about , so I don' t want t o negl ect t o ment i on t hat .

Q. Doct or , you i ndi cat ed you have had a posi t i ve r esponse i n

t r eat i ng Mr . Ost r owski . So si nce Mar ch 21, how i s

Mr . Ost r owski di f f erent t oday t han he was l ast March when he

met wi t h you?

A. Wel l , when he f i r st came i n he was di st r essed. He was

anxi ous. That was t he f i r st t hi ng he sai d. You know, he was

goi ng t hr ough a l ot of emot i onal t hi ngs, i f not hi ng el se, and I

guess prof essi onal t hi ngs. And you know, one of t he r easons he

came i n was because he had had a di sor der t hat had been

bot her i ng hi m f or a l ong number of year s.

I woul d say t hat he' s much more at peace wi t h hi msel f . He

seems much more cent ered and more happy. You know, I t hi nk

he' s bet t er adj ust ed. You know, i n t er ms of my di agnosi s t hat

I do when I see hi m each t i me, he seems t o be - - he seems t o be

much mor e even.

MR. GILROY: I have no f ur t her quest i ons.

MR. OSTROWSKI: J ust a f ew br i ef .

THE COURT: Any redi r ect exami nat i on, Mr . Ost r owski ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: J ust a coupl e doct or .

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REDIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. OSTROWSKI

Q. Fi r st of al l , wi t h r espect t o your i npat i ent subst ance

abuse t r eat ment , I t hi nk you sai d you di d t hat f or a year . I s

that correct?

A. I f i l l ed i n f or t he di r ect or who l ef t unt i l t hey coul d

f i nd a new di r ect or but yeah, basi cal l y.

Q. So you wer e essent i al l y a di r ect or of a subst ance abuse

t r eat ment cent er f or a year . Was t hat t he posi t i on t hat you

ser ved?

A. Yes.

Q. And i n doi ng t hat wor k, you had - - was i t a 12 st ep t ype

of f aci l i t y?

A. I t was a 28 bed i npat i ent uni t i n a hospi t al . And dur i ng

t he t i me t hat I was t her e t he cr i t er i a changed i n t er ms of

i nsur ances and what t hey woul d cover . So i t ' s j ust an

i nt er est i ng t i me i n hi st or y.

But when I f i r st st ar t ed out and f or about t he f i r st si x

mont hs, peopl e coul d come i n si mpl y because they had an

addi ct i on. A l ot of t i mes t hey came i n si mpl y because t hey

pr ef er r ed goi ng t o a pr ogr am r at her t han goi ng t o j ai l . So t he

i ncent i ve of t he peopl e who wer e i n t her e f or t he f i r st si x

mont hs was not ver y st r ong t o qui t usi ng t hei r subst ance. I t

was j ust basi cal l y to t ake a br eak or t o get of f t he st r eet or

have thr ee meal s a day, have a bed, you know, somethi ng l i ke

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that.

Then i t changed, t he cr i t er i a, and t her e was somet hi ng

t hat was cal l ed dual di agnosi s. And f or t he l ast si x mont hs,

and I j ust happened t o be ther e dur i ng t hat year , you had t o

have a medi cal necessi t y t hat pr ompt ed your admi ssi on and t hen

i f you had an addi ct i on as wel l , you coul d al so be admi t t ed f or

t hat . You coul dn' t si mpl y be admi t t ed because you had an

addi ct i on. So t he f ocus of t he pat i ent s and t hei r mot i vat i on

dr ast i cal l y changed. I j ust wi t nessed t hat by bei ng t her e. So

t he peopl e who were real l y si ck had a much st r onger mot i vat i on

t o get of f of t he dr ugs or t he al cohol t han t he peopl e who j ust

came i n basi cal l y t o avoi d goi ng t o j ai l .

So i t was - - you know, agai n, I l ear ned a l ot t hr ough t he

exper i ence. But you know, I al so l ear ned a l ot about pat i ent s,

t hei r behavi or s, t hei r mot i vat i ons. I can' t r emember what your

quest i on was anymore. Sor r y but . . .

Q. I t was mor e or l ess a f oundat i on quest i on, and I ' l l j ust

ask you di r ect l y. Ar e you f ami l i ar t hr ough t hat exper i ence

wi t h t he 12 st ep t r eat ment ?

A. Yes.

Q. And t hat i s essent i al l y a spi r i t ual r ecover y pr ogr am.

Cor r ect ?

A. Wel l , i t act ual l y - - yeah, i t ' s got sever al f acet s to i t .

One f acet i s def i ni t el y spi r i t ual , and anot her f acet t o some

degr ee i s subst i t ut i on, you know, a ki nd of st eppi ng down.

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Li ke i t ' s not actual l y bui l t i nt o t he pr ogr am, but i t ' s sor t of

one of t he pr act i cal aspect s or at l east one of t he ways i t ' s

i mpl ement ed as, you know, you t r y to get peopl e i f t hey are

addi ct ed t o somet hi ng t hat ' s r eal l y st r ong or bad f or t hem, you

t r y t o st ep t hem down and subst i t ut e a l esser addi ct i on and t he

l esser addi ct i on wi l l ki nd of wean t hem of f . Ther e i s some

val ue i n t hat . That ' s ki nd of a west er n medi ci ne concept . But

t o me what makes t he l argest di f f erence and what r eal l y changes

peopl e i s t he spi r i t ual agai n, l i ke I sai d bef or e.

Q. Okay. And you have - - you have suggest ed r eadi ngs t o me

and t hi ngs of t hat nat ur e. I s t hat cor r ect ?

A. Yes, di f f erent books.

Q. Okay. And one l ast quest i on. Wel l al so, we have t al ked

about pr ayer and medi t at i on and al l of t hose t ypes of spi r i t ual

f ai t h- based pr act i ces. Cor r ect?

A. Cor r ect .

Q. And you' r e awar e t hat I ' m a l i f el ong Roman Cat hol i c. I s

that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Di d you answer?

A. Yes. Sor r y.

Q. Sor r y. One l ast quest i on. Ever y doct or i nt er vi ews

pat i ent s and asks t hemwhat t hei r sympt oms and compl ai nt s ar e

when you f i r st meet someone. I s t hat cor r ect ?

A. Cor r ect . Wel l , I don' t know what ever y doct or does. But

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SCHWARTZ - RECROSS

of your counsel i ng wi t h Mr . Ost r owski , woul d you counsel hi m t o

copy t he Vat i can wi t h communi cat i ons he woul d have wi t h the

Pennsyl vani a Supreme Cour t ?

A. Woul d I counsel hi m?

Q. Yes.

A. No. We - - when I speak wi t h - - when I ment i on spi r i t ual ,

i t has t o do wi t h one' s spi r i t ual bel i ef s and how t hat af f ect s

t hei r heal t h. I t has not hi ng t o do wi t h anyt hi ng pol i t i cal or

l egal or even r epr esent i ng any par t i cul ar r el i gi on.

MR. GILROY: Thank you. Not hi ng f ur t her .

THE COURT: Al l r i ght . Dr . Schwar t z, t hi s i s t he

Cour t . Thank you ver y much f or your t est i mony t hi s morni ng.

I t ' s appr eci at ed. And we' l l r i ng of f .

THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.

THE COURT: You' r e qui t e wel come. Goodbye.

( Wi t ness excused, phone cal l t er mi nat ed. )

THE COURT: Mr . Ost r owski , do you want t o pr oceed wi t h

your next wi t ness?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Yes. My next wi t ness wi l l be Gar en

Meguer i an.

MR. MEGUERIAN: Your Honor , he i nt ends t o cal l Dr .

Kr uszewski ' s counsel as a wi t ness. I have not been subpoenaed.

MR. GILROY: We woul d ask f or an of f er of pr oof ,

J udge.

THE COURT: What i s t he of f er of pr oof ? You ar e Mr .

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Meguer i an?

MR. MEGUERIAN: Yes.

THE COURT: What woul d be t he pur pose of cal l i ng Mr .

Meguer i an, who i s counsel f or Dr . Kr uszewski , Mr . Ost r owski ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: My of f er of pr oof r el at es t o a

Mar ch 22nd, 2013 l et t er t hat Mr . Meguer i an sent me. I f he

woul d st i pul at e t hat i s hi s l et t er and he sent i t t o me, I

woul d be happy to show i t t o hi m, t hat woul dn' t be a pr obl em.

I i nt end t o cal l Dr . Kr uszewski as an adver se wi t ness under

Feder al Rul e of Evi dence, I bel i eve i t ' s 611( c) , and t o use

cross- exami nat i on wi t h hi m. Thi s i s a f oundat i onal pi ece of

evi dence t o est abl i sh t hat t her e i s i ndeed a basi s t o use - - t o

cal l - - t o use l eadi ng quest i ons wi t h r espect t o Dr .

Kr uszewski .

I f Mr . Meguer i an woul d l i ke t o admi t t hat he sent me

t hi s l et t er and t hat I sent a r esponse t o hi m, I t hi nk we coul d

obvi at e t he need f or any t est i mony. He' s i n t he cour t r oom, hi m

not bei ng subpoenaed and i s not a mater i al i ssue. He sent me a

t ot al l y i nappr opr i at e and pr of essi onal l y t hr eat eni ng l et t er .

And he' s t he agent of Dr . Kr uszewski .

THE COURT: Mr . Gi l r oy, woul d you car e t o speak t o

t hi s i ssue?

MR. GILROY: Sur e. We don' t need t he at t orney t o

t est i f y. I have no obj ect i on i f Mr . Ost r owski suggest s t he

doctor i s an adver se wi t ness and want s t o pr oceed as of on

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cross- exami nat i on. I wi l l r eser ve t he obj ect i on as t o whet her

any of hi s t est i mony i s r el evant , t hough. I don' t t hi nk we

need to put t he l awyer on t he st and.

THE COURT: Wel l - -

MR. GILROY: From ever yt hi ng I have l ooked at , I know

t hey are adver se. So we can agr ee wi t h t hat .

MR. OSTROWSKI: Can we get - - t o t he extent t hi s get s

i nt o evi dence - -

THE COURT: Why i s t hi s l et t er hel pf ul or unhel pf ul t o

persuade t he Court ? Remember what you ar e here t o do. What

ar e you her e to do t oday, Mr . Ost r owski ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: I ' m her e t o do what I - -

THE COURT: Br oadl y, what are you here to do?

MR. OSTROWSKI: I ' m her e t o get r eadmi t t ed.

THE COURT: You ar e here t o persuade t he Cour t .

Ri ght ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Ri ght .

THE COURT: Ri ght . How i s t hi s hel pf ul i n per suadi ng

t he Cour t ? You have Dr . Kr uszewski . He' s subpoenaed. Cal l

hi m as your wi t ness and pr oceed.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Okay.

THE COURT: How does Mr . Megueri an' s l et t er, whether

i t ' s an of f ensi ve l et t er or i t ' s not , hel pf ul t o per suadi ng

t hi s Cour t ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: The l evel of ani mosi t y and host i l i t y

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t est i f i ed ext ensi vel y wi t hout one si ngl e obj ect i on t o my

medi cal hi st or y, and even a quest i on as t o what i f he had

t r eat ed me t en years ago. The r el evant conduct under t he

st andard under Rul e 86 - - 83. 26. 3 i s t o determi ne my moral

qual i f i cat i ons, compet ency and l ear ni ng i n l aw. I have t o

demonst r ate t hat by cl ear and convi nci ng evi dence.

Thi s gent l eman, Dr . Kr uszewski ' s, mi st r eat ment of me

under t he gui se of so- cal l ed t r eat ment of me was a huge, huge

f actor t hat af f ected my l i f e. I t af f ected my l i censi ng st at us.

I t i s di r ect l y r el evant t o t hese pr oceedi ngs, and I wi l l be

compl et el y compr omi sed i f I am not abl e t o cal l hi m.

I bel i eve t he obj ect i on i s wai ved by al l owi ng t hi s Dr .

Schwar t z. You gr ant ed t he oppor t uni t y wi t hout obj ect i on f or

Dr . Schwar t z t o t est i f y. Nobody f i l ed a mot i on or anyt hi ng.

THE COURT: Thank you. The obj ect i on i s over r ul ed. I

t hi nk Dr . Kr uszewski ' s t est i mony i s r el evant f or a l i mi t ed

pur pose. However , t he Cour t i s not par t i cul ar l y i nt er est ed i n

pr i or medi cal t r eatment . So you ar e al l owed t o exami ne t hi s

wi t ness. Mr . Gi l r oy can cross exami ne, or essent i al l y i t woul d

be a di r ect exami nat i on, I guess, i f you ar e goi ng t o t ake t hi s

wi t ness under Rul e 611. But i t ' s f or a l i mi t ed pur pose,

Mr . Ost r owski .

MR. OSTROWSKI: Okay.

THE COURT: The obj ect i on i s over r ul ed. You cal l ed

t he wi t ness. Dr . Kr uszewski , i f you woul d come f or war d.

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SCHWARTZ - RECROSS

Mr s. McLaughl i n wi l l swear you i n. Mr s. McLaughl i n.

STEFAN PHI LI P KRUZEWSKI ,

cal l ed as a wi t ness on behal f of t he Pl ai nt i f f , havi ng been

dul y swor n or af f i r med accor di ng t o l aw, t est i f i ed as f ol l ows:

THE COURTROOM DEPUTY: Pl ease be seat ed.

THE COURT: And Gent l emen, excuse me j ust a moment .

The Cour t woul d pref er , i f t her e are goi ng t o be exhi bi t s

admi t t ed, of f er ed i n I t hi nk at t he concl usi on of each

wi t ness' s t est i mony. So Mr . Ost r owski , you of f er ed i n

Pl ai nt i f f ' s Exhi bi t 1, whi ch i s t he cor r espondence, ' To Whom i t

May Concern' l et t er dated May 3r d, 2013 si gned by - - I assume

si gned by Dr . Schwart z. Do you move t he admi ssi on of t hi s

exhi bi t ?

MR. OSTROWSKI: I f or mal l y move t hat i nt o evi dence.

THE COURT: Any obj ect i on t o t hi s, Mr . Gi l r oy?

MR. GILROY: No obj ect i on.

THE COURT: Then t hi s exhi bi t i s dul y admi t t ed. Thank

you.

MR. GILROY: Your Honor, i f I may have an

under st andi ng wi t h t he Cour t . J ust because I ' m not obj ect i ng,

I don' t want t o be her e al l day ar gui ng obj ect i ons. I suspect

t he Cour t i s of t he same mi nd. J ust because I ' m not obj ect i ng

t o some i nf or mat i on, t hat doesn' t suggest t hat i t ' s r el evant .

I ' ve al r eady put on t he r ecor d my posi t i on wi t h r espect t o t hi s

wi t ness' s t est i mony.

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KRUZEWSKI - DIRECT (as-on-cross)

and as I sai d, Pennsyl vani a. I ' m boar d cer t i f i ed by t he

Amer i can Boar d of Psychi at r y and Neur ol ogy and General

Psychi at r y. I was pr evi ousl y boar d cer t i f i ed i n addi ct i on

psychi at r y and ger i at r i c psychi at r y by t he same Boar d. I was

cer t i f i ed al so by the Amer i can Boar d of Adol escent Psychi at r y,

and I am cer t i f i ed f or t he l i f et i me by t he Amer i can Boar d of

Addi ct i on Medi ci ne.

I cur r ent l y am empl oyed f or t en year s wor ki ng f or

Gaudenzi a, I ncor por at ed i n Har r i sbur g and vi ci ni t y. I ' ve al so

been wor ki ng f or Mazzi t t i and Sul l i van f or 13 year s now. As

you know, I have a l ong hi st or y of bei ng a qui t am r el at or . I

have had t hr ee successf ul set t l ement s, one agai nst Pf i zer,

I ncorporated and one agai nst Ast r aZeneca, I ncorporated and one

agai nst Sout hwood Psychi at r i c Hospi t al i n Pi t t sbur gh,

Pennsyl vani a.

My cur r ent academi c appoi nt ment i s wi t h the J ohns Hopki ns

Uni ver si t y Medi cal School wi t h t he Bl oomber g School of Publ i c

Heal t h. I n t hat depar t ment I wor ked f or t he Cent er f or Dr ug

Saf et y and Ef f ect i veness i n t he depar t ment of ment al heal t h.

Q. And Doctor, as a conveni ence, I pl aced bef ore you an

exhi bi t mar ked as Pl ai nt i f f ' s Exhi bi t 2. Do you have t hat i n

f r ont of you? I t hi nk I have t hat - -

A. Yes, I do.

Q. I s t hat your CV? Look at t he st i cker s on t he bot t om. One

i s a t wo and one i s a t hr ee. Frankl y, I f or get what I put t he

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number s on. I t hought t wo was your cur r i cul um vi t ae.

A. I ' m sor r y. I ' m not hear i ng you.

Q. There' s a pi nk st i cker on t he bot t om r i ght - hand cor ner .

A. I t says number t wo.

Q. That ' s Exhi bi t 2. You have t hat - - i t says updat ed March,

2013. And t hat i s on your medi cal websi t e. I s t hat cor r ect ?

A. I t hi nk t hat ' s cor r ect . I br ought a mor e updat ed one

act ual l y and counsel has i t .

Q. I f he want s t o use i t , I won' t have an obj ect i on. But

t hi s i s f i ne f or my pur poses. Thi s i s pr epar ed by you and i s a

f ul l and accurate summary as of March of 2013 of your

backgr ound and qual i f i cat i ons. I s t hat cor r ect ?

A. That ' s cor r ect .

Q. Now, Doct or , coul d you br i ef l y descr i be what

neur opsychi at r y i s?

A. My speci al t y i s pr i mar i l y addi ct i on medi ci ne. My

secondar y speci al t y i s neur opsychi at r y. That ' s t he

neur ol ogi cal under pi nni ngs of psychi at r i c di sor der s.

Q. And woul d t hat i ncl ude t hi ngs l i ke st udyi ng anxi et y and

t r eat i ng anxi et y condi t i ons and t hi ngs of t hat nat ur e?

A. I f t her e ar e - - i f t her e' s an or gani c basi s f or anxi et y,

yes. But t he gener al st udy of anxi et y i s wi t hi n t he conf i nes

of gener al psychi at r y.

Q. Okay. I bel i eve you sai d you wer e f or mer l y cer t i f i ed i n

addi ct i on psychi at r y. Di d I hear t hat cor r ect l y?

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A. The r ecords at t hi s moment , a copy of t hem are wi t h

counsel .

Q. Okay. May I have a copy of my records?

A. No.

MR. OSTROWSKI: I don' t t hi nk t hat t hat i s r eal l y your

deci si on, Doct or . I subpoenaed t he r ecor ds. They haven t been

pr ovi ded t o me. I sent a medi cal r equest . I di d a f ol l ow- up

medi cal r equest and got a t hr eat eni ng l et t er f r om t hat l awyer

who now has my r ecords and thi s gent l eman won' t gi ve them t o

me?

MR. MEGUERIAN: Your Honor .

THE COURT: Mr . Meguer i an, do you want t o speak to

t hi s i ssue?

MR. MEGUERIAN: Yes. Your Honor , you speci f i cal l y

sai d t hi s was not goi ng t o be di scover y oppor t uni t y f or

Mr . Ost r owski . Unl ess he can expl ai n why hi s r ecor ds ar e

r el evant f r om ei ght year s ago f or hi s f i t ness t o r et ur n t o t he

pr act i ce of l aw bef or e t hi s Cour t , I see no basi s f or hi m t o

obt ai n t hose recor ds.

MR. OSTROWSKI: How about - -

THE COURT: Mr . Ost r owski , why ar e t hey rel evant t o

t oday' s pr oceedi ng?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Wel l - -

THE COURT: I t may be rel evant t o anot her pr oceedi ng.

Why ar e t hey r el evant t o t oday' s pr oceedi ng?

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Mr . Ost r owski , r el at i ve t o t oday' s pr oceedi ng, whi ch deal s wi t h

a r ei nst at ement t o t he Bar of t he Mi ddl e Di st r i ct of

Pennsyl vani a?

MR. OSTROWSKI: The rel evance t o that pr oceedi ng i s

t he t r auma and anxi et y di sorder wi t h whi ch I was obvi ousl y

af f ect ed f or 40 year s, accor di ng t o t he doct or who j ust

t est i f i ed wi t hout obj ect i on, substant i al l y. And I ' l l t est i f y,

t oo, and I ' l l t i e t hi s stuf f t oget her . But i t substant i al l y

i mpacted my pr i or st andi ng wi t h t he Bar.

One of t he key component s i n my di sci pl i nary case was

a case by t he name of Aaron Chambers t hat was bei ng l i t i gated

bef ore J udge Kane. And my psychi at r i c/ medi cal , however you

want t o l abel i t , condi t i on r el at ed subst ant i al l y t o t hat

di sci pl i ne. I t hi nk t hat t hi s Cour t i n det er mi ni ng whet her I

shoul d cur r ent l y be readmi t t ed, I caused - - I caused some

i nconveni ence t o a j udge of t hi s Cour t . I caused pot ent i al

pr ej udi ce and t r emendous i nconveni ence t o my cl i ent . Those

r el at e speci f i cal l y to my compet ency and abi l i t y to pr act i ce

l aw. And i t ' s t he ent i r e pr emi se of my mot i on, and i t was t he

ent i r e pr emi se of Dr . Schwar t z' s t est i mony that t he evi dence

has been admi t t ed i nt o t he r ecor d.

THE COURT: Di dn' t we get t hat t est i mony, t hough,

r eal l y f r om Dr . Schwar t z ear l i er t hi s mor ni ng?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Your Honor , wel l , we got t hat t hat i s

my cur r ent di agnosi s.

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THE COURT: I sn' t t hat what t hi s Cour t shoul d be

concerned about t oday, i n t erms of r eadmi ssi on t o t he Bar

t oday? That i s what you are seeki ng i n your May 2013 mot i on t o

t he Cour t .

MR. OSTROWSKI: But l ooki ng back al so, Your Honor ,

t o - - and I t hi nk I j ust addr essed t he i ssue. These st r ess

di sor ders - - you know, my quote, unquot e mi sconduct never

i nvol ved one decei t f ul wor d I ever ut t er ed and never i nvol ved

any l i es, never i nvol ved t aki ng money f r om peopl e, never

i nvol ved cr i mi nal behavi or . I t i nvol ved me havi ng some sever e

psychi c i ssues t hat I was deal i ng wi t h.

My cont ent i on when we do post hear i ng br i ef i ng i s I

never woul d have experi enced t hese psychi c i ssues had I ever

been on t he di agnosi s t hat I had been sear chi ng f or f or year s

and pr oper l y t r eat ed.

THE COURT: Wel l , t he Cour t - - t hank you, Mr .

Meguer i an. The Cour t under st ands t hat . The obj ect i on i s

sust ai ned. Do you have some ot her quest i ons f or t hi s wi t ness?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Sur e.

BY MR. OSTROWSKI

Q. Doct or , I pl aced bef or e you an exhi bi t mar ked as

Pl ai nt i f f ' s Exhi bi t Number 3. Do you have t hat ?

A. Yes, I do.

Q. I t says at t he t op of i t r ecei ved by a Kendr a Donnel l y

4/ 10/ 13 and sworn st atement of Andr ew J . Ost r owski .

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A. Yes.

Q. Have you seen that bef ore?

A. I ' m awar e of i t . I ' ve not read i t .

Q. Okay. So t hi s i s the f i r st t i me t hen t hat you ar e seei ng

i t ?

A. I ' m awar e of i t but I ' ve not r ead i t .

Q. Wel l , bei ng awar e - - I want t o know i f you have seen i t

bef or e.

A. I ' ve seen t he cover. I have not r ead t he document .

Q. Okay. The - - dur i ng t he cour se of - - coul d you descr i be

f or t he Cour t what your t r eat ment of me i nvol ved?

MR. MEGUERIAN: Obj ect i on, Your Honor . Agai n, we' r e

get t i ng i nt o past t r eat ment .

THE COURT: I t hi nk I ' ve made i t cl ear , as pol i t el y

and as f ormal l y as we can, t hat we don' t want t o vent ur e down

t hat pat h. That obj ect i on i s sust ai ned.

I f you have ot her quest i ons of t hi s wi t ness,

Mr . Ost r owski , you may cert ai nl y ask t hem.

BY MR. OSTROWSKI

Q. Doctor , you' r e an oi l pai nt er . I s t hat cor r ect?

A. Yes.

MR. MEGUERIAN: Obj ect i on, Your Honor . Not r el evant .

THE COURT: What woul d t he rel evance of t hat be to

t hi s pr oceedi ng r el at i ng t o your r ei nst at ement - -

MR. OSTROWSKI: I wi l l wi t hdr aw - -

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THE COURT: Excuse me. Rel at i ng t o your r ei nst atement

t o t he Bar of t he Mi ddl e Di st r i ct of Pennsyl vani a?

MR. OSTROWSKI: Wel l , Doct or - - or excuse me. J udge,

t he rel evance i s I at t ached a ten- page sworn st atement t o my

mot i on t o be r eadmi t t ed.

THE COURT: Dr . Kr uszewski has t est i f i ed t hat he i s

f ami l i ar wi t h i t but has not r ead i t .

MR. OSTROWSKI: Wel l , t hi s i s a st at ement of me.

That ' s f i ne. I ' m not goi ng t o ask hi m speci f i cal l y about t he

st at ement . But t hi s st at ement cont ai ns a whol e host of f act ual

al l egat i ons t hat I have made - -

THE COURT: But we wi l l gi ve you t he oppor t uni t y t o

t est i f y about t hat i n det ai l i f you car e t o.

MR. OSTROWSKI: Wel l , you know - -

THE COURT: I t seems t o me t hi s quest i on i s not

r el evant t o t oday' s pr oceedi ngs, so t he obj ect i on i s sust ai ned.

I f you have ot her quest i ons of t hi s wi t ness, you may ask t hem.

MR. OSTROWSKI: I under st and. I j ust want t o make a

poi nt about your st at ement about I ' l l be gi ven an oppor t uni t y

t o t est i f y. I under st and I ' l l be gi ven an oppor t uni t y t o

t est i f y. Thi s i s my hear i ng and I ' m goi ng i n t he or der t hat I

deem appr opr i at e. And f r ankl y, I cal l ed Dr . Kr uszewski second

out of r espect f or hi s concer ns as expr essed by hi s counsel as

t o want i ng t o get out of her e and t hi ngs of t hat nat ur e.

May I t ake t hi s - - may I have t hi s wi t ness st ep down

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Ostrowski Motion Hrg 8-27-13 10MC64

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Transcript of Ostrowski Motion Hrg 8-27-13 10MC64